Trophy Talk

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Title: Question about lure color...
Topic started: 10/09/02 13:57
Author: Patrick72
Total Replies: 18
Message:
All,
I have a 10" Musky Mania crankbait. It is the "Jake" model. It trolls to 20 feet I think and retrieves 10-12 feet. Would it be a safe assumption to say that if I have it painted a rainbow trout pattern that it will still be a good bait to use for bass where there are not trout for the bass to eat? I would hate to have a lure painted like a trout and only be able to use it on waters that are stocked with trout. Anyone caught a bass on a trout lure where there are no trout.
This all leads to my next question too. Would it be reasonable to use live trout in waters where trout are not a main course for bass due to no stocking program? I am curious to know. The reason I as is because I have never seen a firetiger fish swimming around nor have I seen a fish with a crawdad pattern like so many lures have these days.
Pat
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Replies:
10/09/02 14:40  - Richaqrd Ziert

A trout bait can work where there are no numbers of trout already in the water. However, it would be better if the bass recognizes the bait as a trout. Big bass out here in California have grown acustom to eating trout because the state plants them on a regular basis. So regular sometimes that bass are waiting for the truck at the deposite sight. There are lakes here that don't turn on to trout until they start planting. One in particular doesn't get trout until late fall. That's the time to fish trout baits in that lake.

I'd say don't paint your muskie lure to look like a trout unless you have trout in the lake. Fish with it as is, and your chances of a reaction bite are as about equal. As a side note, your trout baits have to have the physical profile of a trout. Then the colors have to be right, then the movement of the bait has to resemble a trout. If you ever want to paint a bait to look like a rainbow, paint it light grey with speckles down it's sides. Rainbow trout only take on the rainbow hues when they are taken from the water. So, your bait should not look like a rainbow after all.

On the matter of useing live trout, you better check with your fish and game laws before you find yourself in the pokey, fined heavily, and all your equipment/boat confiscated . . . or all of the above.

Rich


10/09/02 14:59  - Patrick72

Richard,
I contacted the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife and it is legal to both catch trout and use them as live bait, including taking them from one body of water to another as well as buy trout and have it shipped in and use it as live bait. I have a Castaic trout that is 9" long but I do not know how deep it will troll or retrieve on the cast. The muskie lure is a black with a bit of gray scales and I think a touch of yellow on the belly. I think that it may look more appealing of if it was some other color. I think that I mayuse it as a jerk bait and troll it in the lake that has trout. I think the action will be very lifelike. It should draw strikes in deep water where the bass can't see it as well. do you agree? I am looking to catch one giant bass on it for it to pay off so it may be best to paint it. Go to http://www.hughescustombaits.com/page1.htm and tell me what you think of this.
Pat


10/09/02 15:39  - Legendary Lures

Over the years, one of my most productive colors on minnow-style lures has been rainbow trout. I live in Ohio and the only rainbows are stocked rainbows. Needless to say, the majority of our lakes do not have them. When yummy RBT are introduced into an Ohio lake, they don't last long since our lakes have muskies, northern pike and various bass.

The other thing to consider might be this: a closed mouth fish can sometimes be triggered by something unfamiliar. So it might be an advantage to use a trout colored lure in a lake that has no trout.

Lure size can be a triggering factor, too. LBM defend their territory and may consider an oversized lure to be a competitor or intruder, attacking it to drive it out.


10/09/02 15:49  - Patrick72

LL,
Thank you too for your input. I think we have a good discussion here that me be benificial to all of us. Say I have a trout like 10" crankbait that is raising a ruckus and bumping bottom and a 15 pound bass sees this going by 3 feet away. Is it even going to care what color the lure is? I know that bass eat catfish, brim, crappie, shad, frogs, turtles, and even bass. You may get one on a reaction strike or a hunger strike. It is fairly simple to see if the bass is feeding by the blood drawn to its crushers and teeth so you could find out. I may try the color it came in and try trolling it through the winter against the Castaic trout. This could be a somewhat scientific test. Or I could get another Jake just like it and paint only one of them and match them head to head. I think that either way the bass have never seen anything like this and they may go nutso for it. I would bet that 99% of all bass in Oklahoma have never seen a Castaic trout or a 10" Jake crankbait so I may be on to something.
Pat


10/10/02 12:44  - Chuck Bauer

Patrick,

I have caught bass on the troutr swimbait here at Lake Ray Roberts (no trout in the lake) here in Texas. When a bigger fish is ready for a big meal, wala!!!!! And when they hit, they hit. Sometimes I wonder if the dang color of the lure is so important. I really don't think a HUGE bass runs up behind a trout swimbaits and says . . . gee, I think I'll pass on this one because I was looking more for a bluegill color. Doesn't happen too often!

If you can LEGALLY live line out a trout, then more power to you. In most states and area's there are specifc laws against the live linning a trout, especially in California. So you'd better check regulations of the lakes where you'll be fishin'.

We don't want to read a post here where you're needing us to send bail and I am not talkin' about a bucket!!!! lol . . .

Chuck


10/10/02 15:08  - Henry Shorr

Pat:

I use a lot of musky lures for bass. I think 95% of the time color means more to me than the bass. Being in Southern California my trolling lures resemble trout. Most musky lures are painted much different than bass lures. I do not have confidence in musky colors, therefore I paint trout patterns on my musky lures. That does not mean musky colors will not work for bass, this means they will not work for me.

Fishing is all about “how you feel”. Use what you have confidence in. It is very hard to use a lure you do not think will work. If you want to use a trout pattern, Musky Mania makes a trout pattern in their 9” Ernie (They might produce a trout pattern in the 10” Jake). The Ernie will troll to 30” and is a very noisy lure. If you are interested in the “Ernie” (or other musky lures) Ed Jackson at Jacksonlures.com should have the trout pattern in stock. His prices are very reasonable.

Good Luck

Henry Shorr


10/10/02 15:29  - Chuck Bauer

Henry,

You really hit the mark on the confidence part. I was reading an article just the other day on confidence in fishing. The author said it accounts for up to 50% of our success.

It's funny you mention it because I was thinking how sometimes I just have to stay with what I know works. But I also think we need to remember to be open and available for new stuff as well even though we find it hard to adapt to change.

Good stuff and I can't wait to read what Patrick and Xzeirt have to say . . .


10/10/02 15:59  - Patrick72

Guys,
I have checked and double checked with several Fish and Game guys from here in OK and they confirmed that "as long as you legally catch, on rod and line, a trout in Oklahoma you can use it as live bait. Pat, you can even use any gamefish as live bait in Oklahoma as long as it is within legal limits. You can not use any gamefish if it has been taken by netting or any means other than rod and line". He also mentioned I have to pay a small fee for a trout stamp to be able to catch trout or fish in waters where trout are stocked or naturally occur here. I don't prefer the dark color of my 10" Jake so I may try a shad pattern or a trout to see how they work compared to each other. This will be very interesting. How deep will a Castaic Trout troll? I may wind up carolina rigging both baits and drifting them? May troll them. I may cast them. I will let you all know some results soon hopefully.
Pat


10/10/02 17:00  - Chuck Bauer

Patrick,

That is awesome on the trout live linning it. Great tool to have in your back pocket.

On the Castaic, the slower the retrival, the deeper it will run, down to about 15 feet. If you need to get deeper, you need to place a one ounce bullet weight on the line which will help you get it down.

Another effective way on the Castaic is trolling it, which Duclos applies so well. Get on your electric at about 1 to 1.5 mph and set that big fat piece of plastic behind the boat, say 100 feet minimum. Some hunters will troll with regular type line or you can advance up to lead core or stainless steel trolling line.

Another way is to drop shot the Castaic and LONG line it. Mike Long on his teleclass cd calls this "having a sandwich." Tie you up a three way swival. Place a one ounce weight about 4-6t feet down on a heavy leader. On the other side. tie a 4-6 ft leader off with lighter line and tie your Castaic to this. Your main line goes to the 3rd position.

Think about this for a moment . . . you're in deep water, say 20-30 feet. With this setup the trout is now at a 12 foot position off the bottom deck. When you engage the reel, the trout will go deeper, down another six feet to six feet off the deck. If you were working this bait correctly, you could get it to run up and down like a rollar coster.

After you dunk this set-up, move the boat back and away from the target area, as far back as you can. Double anchor and engage in stealth techniques. Now, eat your sandwich and enjoy the outdoors. After your sandwich is done, work the bait back to the boat.

Now, I have a question for you. Do you have Murphys book? Have you listened to any of the cd's? What about Crupi's video. Now, please don't take this as a sales pitch. It seems that you have embraced some great stuff and ideas and I want to add to your process by making sure you increase your educational value.

Heck, Duclos wouldn't even talk with me unless I read Murphy's book which by far is the foundational book for all big bass hunters. So, as you learn and grow, remember there are other sources of info to access that will provide you with a wealth of knowledge.

Hope this helps . . .
Chuck


10/10/02 17:10  - Richaqrd Ziert

Does your confidense make sense ? It better !

You guys are absolutely correct about the subject of confidence. I go through all these macinations of thinking things through, and putting diversified information together in new ways, for only one reason. If what I do makes sense based on the parts, there's a much better "chance" or probability that the outcome will also be right on. That, my friends, builds my confidence.

If you use any other means besides what makes sense to you to come to your conclusions, that is, you are confident, but you don't really know why you are confident, then face it, you are relying on dumb luck.

Rich

The biggest dummy of them all.


10/11/02 08:43  - Patrick72

I have watched Homer Circle videos as well as the Bodacious Bass video. I have not read the book by Murphy but I will check it out. I am confident that I can go to my trout lake and catch 10 pound plus bass but I have no experience with the larger swim/crankbaits. This is good discussion for me to learn from you guys experiences. I am also going to catch 5 trout and put them in a bait tank and head to this lake and try that. How would you guys suggest fishing a live 8" or 10" trout? I have been thinking about dropshotting it but I don't have a clue on this one. I know that the stiper guides troll trout in the rivers here and catch some real monster stripers.
Pat


10/11/02 09:43  - Chuck Bauer

Patrick,

For the swimbaits, implement the stuff I posted just a few back from this one. As far as live-linning out the trout, I would toss it out on slack line first and give it plenty to work with. Leave the reel in FREE SPOOL.

Other options would be a small split shot about 18 to 24 inches up to get it down or even a carolina rig.

Chuck


10/11/02 10:17  - Richaqrd Ziert

Something to remember about live trout mouths.

Trout are very soft skined and you can rip a hook out of their mouths easily. Hook them once through the upper lip with the barb up. let your line out slowly, and don't set the hook or reel in fast unless you are sure you've been bit. Otherwise, you'll go through a bunch of trout before you click on this lesson.

Rich


10/11/02 11:31  - Patrick72

Rich,
Any certain hook? How about hooking in the back or tail? The wounded trout ya know? Would they be prone to dying real quick?
Pat


10/11/02 12:45  - Richaqrd Ziert

Patrick, If you want to use what I have used on big, big minnows, use a # 2. octopus "saltwater" hook (saltwater hooks are thicker), hook them through the upper lip, and push a hook keeper down over the barb.

How to make "Hook Keepers":

Find a paper hole punch. Use that hole punch to punch out holes from a coffee can plastic lid. Each one of the dots you just made is a hook keeper.

Rich


10/11/02 13:55  - Richaqrd Ziert

Patrick, see my missdirected post under the topic I started on big bass.

Sorry for the mix up. You too will get old someday and have senior moments.

Rich


10/11/02 14:32  - Patrick72

X,
Thank for the great idea on the way to keep bait on better. I will have to try that wil the trout too.
Pat


08/31/05 01:38  - brantley aiken

sure, match the hatch with a rainbow pattern, and yes myself and im sure a lot of other bass fisherman have caught bass on rainbow patterns in waters where bass have never seen trout. the crankbait patterns that catch the most fish are the ones your confident in and usually the ones that are tied to your line. i have found my personal success comes from advice from experts, but mostly my own knowledge and experiences.



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